The Headliner: Two Dykes and a Mic
"Everywhere you look, it's just, like—it's queer culture exploded into your eardrums."
Rachel Scanlon and McKenzie Goodwin, Comedians and hosts of Two Dykes and a Mic
On Two Dykes and a Mic, a queer culture podcast hosted by comedians Rachel Scanlon and McKenzie Goodwin, everything gay is the name of the game. From the latest gossip about Taylor Swift (Gaylor?) to meaningful advice about navigating the world as an LGBTQIA+ person, the pair seamlessly blends humor with heart to make it feel like you’re just hanging out with your best friends.
That sense of familial ease is thanks, in large part, to Scanlon and Goodwin’s friendship, which flirts with the boundary between friend and lover (they threatened to kiss each other multiple times during the interview). The pair met doing comedy and started an open mic, which eventually evolved into the podcast Two Dykes and a Mic. Their dynamic comes from how comfortable and open the pair are with each other, which, in turn, creates a lovable, relatable, and hilarious atmosphere for their listeners.
Ahead of their Topping Your Best Friend tour, I sat down with the pair to chat about their podcast, their comedy origins, and what it’s like to curate a queer community through podcasting.
How would you describe your podcast?
Rachel: It feels like a virtual gay theme park full of sex rides.
McKenzie: Are you serious?
R: ‘Course I’m serious.
M: Where are you coming up with this?
R: Wait, is this me coming in too hot for a Monday morning? …
M: Yeah.
R: You log into the podcast, and … everywhere you look, it's just, like—it's queer culture exploded into your eardrums. It's friendship, like two actual best friends being as silly as you can imagine. I feel like a lot of times, … people really think of murder with podcasts, or, like, education.
M: Yeah, we're none of that. You’ll learn nothing from our podcast.
R: Not a goddamn thing. If anything, you will unlearn a lot of stuff. It's, like, it really is way more—I think of our podcast as more of like a show that is so much more playful and silly. Like, it's so much goofier, which I think is, like, one of the most important things. Whenever we're making episodes, we try to be equal parts silly, and funny, and, like, heart. … But I think, a lot of times, when you get to, like, queer media, things are, like, so heavy and serious. … And so, I really, at all times, am just, like, mostly trying to make McKenzie laugh. And McKenzie is, you know—
M: Trying to F you.
R: Just trying to fuck me.
M: That's every episode.
You both are independent comedians, so what brought you to creating this podcast together?
McKenzie: For me, it was a way to make a friend, because we started doing, like, an open mic, and I was like, “How can I get to hang out with Rachel more often?”
Rachel: Are you serious?
M: Yeah.
R: That's so cute. You're such a dork. You wanted to hang out with me?
M: Here's the thing: I never had like a gay best friend. And when I met Rachel, I was like—I just loved her personality, and we had a lot of similar interests. And I was like, I want to talk about gay stuff with my best friend. So then, I wanted to start this podcast with you, so we could like just talk about why Cara Delevingne is blowing through all of Hollywood.
R: Which is something we do talk about frequently.
We were doing stand up together, so I think, at that time, … everyone was, you know, doing these like shitty podcasts — like really bad podcasts. And it was a real, like male, dominated space in a way that was, like, oppressive. When we started, there were almost no other queer podcasts. … And then, when McKenzie asked me to turn our open mic into a podcast, I was like, “For sure this person wants to fuck me.” And then we kind of just took it from there.
You’re extremely close friends. Do you feel like that impacts the podcast at all, aside from giving it a sense of real chemistry?
Both: Yeah.
McKenzie: I think when we do our Ask A Dyke questions, and people ask us about queer friendships, we have such an angle to talk about that.
Rachel: Well, and how many podcasts, especially now, you’ve seen grab two strangers with a following, and put them together, and they're like, “Hey, Amazon presents this shitty fucking podcast.” Sorry, this is pointed. Whatever.
M: We have more chemistry than a lot of other podcasts.
R: I think that you can hear it, too. It is not a sterile [idea of] you take one formula, and another formula, and here comes like some fucking content with an ad at the beginning. Our podcast has friendship deep into its veins, and you can hear it through everything that we do, because you're, like, listening to people that actually know each other for years and years and love each other. … Like, all I've ever wanted, my whole upbringing, was to see two undeniable hysterical queer people being silly and gay together. It's all I've ever wanted, and we so rarely get it. And then, when we do, they get canceled out of nowhere. So I think we're trying to fill the void that we desperately need in our young queer little hearts.
M: To me, it's queer content made by queer people for queer people. You know what I mean?
R: 100%. … It feels less stale. … You'll hear us be like, “Oh, we're a dumb, gay, silly podcast.” But if you actually listen to multiple episodes, you'll be like, “Oh, my God, these people give a shit.” … I think we get by on being really funny and goofy, because that's important to the core, but, like, you'll see that there's actually, like, a lot of heart in the podcast.
What were your first impressions of each other?
McKenzie: What I thought is not okay for print.
Rachel: Wait, no. As a narcissist, to hear this is, like, my dream.
M: When I met Rachel, I walked in and [she] hosted the open mic with her ex-girlfriend — or, they were girlfriends at the time. Well, and so, I walked in, and they were breaking up on stage afterwards. So I was like, “Oh, my God, these girls are so funny.” Like, I thought it was a bit, and then it was not a bit. They were breaking up. And then I walked up to her after the show, and I was like, “If you need another dyke for your mic, I'm your gal”—or actually, I slid into your DMs. … My initial impression was that you — because you were hitting on me that first night pretty hard—
R: As I do.
M: I was like, she's a gay slut.
R: And what an accurate read. Did you see me do stand-up that night?
M: Yeah, I thought you were the funniest person in the room.
R: Also a good read.
That night, I truly was dumping somebody on stage, so that was real. We lived together, we ran a mic together, and we were breaking up. And all I remember is that this person with an Arizona State University hoodie on was sliding in my DMs. At that time when I was probably, what? 23? No, 24. I mean, a child in the Lord's eyes. I was a kid. And I thought for sure, in my mind, if you know that I'm breaking up with somebody, and then you're sliding in my DMs, I'm like, “Oh, she wants it, for sure wants it.” But then I remember thinking that McKenzie and I have a bond that is different than how McKenzie acts with other people pretty quick. …
I have, like, a very open-pelvis energy. And McKenzie has, like, a more closed-off—a little lighter. But we, right away, had a closeness. And so, I felt like that was really special. And I've kind of always protected that bond that we have, … because I think being the only queer podcast on the block, the only queer, like, live stand-up show on the block, there can be a lot of places where we need to, like, protect each other. … When I met McKenzie, right away, I was like, here's somebody who has the most ambition that I've ever met of anyone in my life — and the strongest jawline. And I knew that that would make for a very successful podcast.
Is your favorite part of doing the podcast just getting to be with each other?
McKenzie: I think yeah. Because if I didn't like you, that would be a really tough. … I mean, my favorite part—honestly, I love the fact that we—like, when gay things happen, I feel like we're first on the scene. Like, there's a little bit of an excitement. Not like ambulance chasers, but that's a good example.
Rachel: I think my favorite part—I have two. … I think when I get McKenzie really laughing is my favorite part, because that checks a ton of boxes: friendship box, comedian box, all of it. … Sometimes she really loses it, and that's my favorite, I think.
Well, also, as the podcast has grown, obviously, doing the shows live, too, is the most fun that I've—it's the most fulfilling thing I've ever had in my career as a stand-up comedian. To see something that we've made for so long for a group of queer people who this means something to them, and then, we are all in this world that we have somehow created — the theme park, the gay theme park in our minds. It’s like, crazy.
I think a very common experience in the queer community is feeling like you're the only person who's gay. … And I think that a part of it now is also being gaslighted and people thinking that everyone's gay now and then living in a reality where you still feel other than, marginalized all the time. So when you are at a live show—we all are not only mostly queer people, but we all enjoy this same type of content that is, like, super goofy and fun. It is, like, kind of, like, a magical thing. I think my favorite part would be doing those live shows. And when you [McKenzie] laugh.
You all finished a tour last November and are about to head out for your new Topping Your Best Friend tour! Has anything you’ve experienced while on the road surprised you?
Rachel: I'm surprised how many gay people there are.
McKenzie: Really?
R: I mean, I've always known there's a ton of gay people, but as far as queer people who would come out to see shows, everyone was always, like, “You can really only do it once a month, and it's mostly gay men.” And then you would get, like, a very small night that was still catered to gay men.
M: And also it would always be called something like LGBT-he-he-he.
R: Yeah, real corny shit.
M: It's just, like, embarrassing. There was never more than one woman on a line-up.
R: True.
M: Never more than one queer person on a line-up.
R: True.
M: So, like, I think we started, and we were the only show in Los Angeles that had—that was a queer show.
R: Yes. We were doing a stand-up showcase where we were booking queer people … instead of a monthly show that gave you one queer night.
I mean, we're kind of like, pioneers. We're kind of actually, like, kind of the best who's ever done it. We actually should be written down in history. Are you writing this down?
Did you all start your open mic as a way to combat that man-focused queer comedy scene? Or did you just happen to be woman comedians starting a new show?
Rachel: I was really sick of not having enough stage time. Everything that we've had, we had to make it for ourselves, because there wasn't enough. People were not giving enough to us, specifically, and queer people in general. We were sick of waiting our turn, so we were like, “Fine, we'll make it.”
McKenzie: Nobody would put me up. And if they did, they would always be so misogynistic, and also really homophobic to me at shows, and I was like—I never felt safe, right, in a lot of ways.
R: So, I think we started to make it ourselves. And that making it for yourself, that level of stage, level of show, whatever, has just grown. So, first, we were like, “Well, what can we control?” Every open mic that I go to, I'm seeing shit that's homophobic, racist, makes me want to jump out of my body into a full-on freezing-cold lake. So, fine, we'll start an open mic. … And we kept just, like, booking our queer friends, making more, like, connections with people that are hysterical that we like. And that stage has grown, but it really just came from, like, I'm sick of waiting for shit that's bad anyways.
Do you feel like you’ve seen the LA comedy scene become any more safe or welcoming to queer comedians?
Rachel: Well, we started doing stand-up before the Me Too movement. I mean, it was horrible. … And, like, this is, of course, to say things have changed a lot since the Me Too movement. Things have changed a lot since TikTok. And things have changed a lot in general in the queer community. The scene has all changed. Things need to get better, of course, but they've changed a lot. … I think people are a lot more aware of things that are toxic.
McKenzie: It's still bad out there; it's still not great. But there are a lot more queer shows.
R: I think that there's more nuance in the queer comedy scene, and it feels less like, I don't know if this makes sense, but it feels less like you're, like, on a cruise ship—you're, like, the one gay performer. It feels almost more like the queer comedy scene gets to be consumed by the community that it’s for versus, like, you're like the gay a performer for straight masses, and you kind of have to—
M: You’re a gay clown.
R: It feels like there's just more niche nuances in the way that comedy is consumed now that I think makes it better.
I was curious if there was any real evolution in your comedy area, and I’m glad to hear it seems like there’s at least some.
Rachel: There sometimes is this thing where, when you're a queer performer, people want you to feel like there's a competition. There can only be one good queer show. There can only be one top lesbian stand-up. And that is, like, so the opposite of how we feel on Two Dykes and a Mic. It is, like, things get better when there are more of us. So, drawing in other queer voices and, like, also very, like, purposefully either putting on your line-up, or booking on your podcast, booking on your shows, other queer people that have a different perspective than you—when there are more of us doing more shows, having more things, than we all get to be more of who we are. Like, I can't speak for every, like, queer voice out there, but the more of us there are, then the less pressure it is. Like, I feel like I can be more funny when there's more queer voices, and that's like all that I'm trying to do is be as funny as I can be, as funny as we can be.
McKenzie: I think, from the moment we started doing even our booked show, we always were like, “Let's bring four different queer people on our show.” Always.
R: Like, just—the more of us, the better the content.
M: Always.
R: And I feel like we've always been trying to—
M: —champion other queer people.
R: Yeah
You all mentioned TikTok before, and it made me curious about how you feel it, and other social media sites, plays into finding that community.
McKenzie: I think people can obviously access us more no. I feel like, because of clips on TikTok and Instagram, we get to start conversations with our community. Like, it feels like we're actually all hanging out together. I think that's one thing that I really like about clips. We'll post something where we're kind of almost asking a question and getting to see what [people’s] experiences are. … I think that's what makes me excited about, like, being on TikTok and Instagram is we're able to interact quicker with our audience, and that's very fun.
You combine a lot of silliness with a healthy dose of seriousness. Was that tone intentional, or did it just develop naturally?
McKenzie: I don't think it was intentional. I think with us growing, from going from our 20s and our 30s—we both went from being single to in very serious relationships. I think we've become more serious. And this podcast has become more serious.
Rachel: It's not even that it's more serious. … There's more depth, because there's more time, you know what I mean? I think the longer you spend with people—just like when you're dating. I feel like if you're listening to podcast long enough, it's almost like you're dating us, where you kind of start off with that goofy or flirty [feeling]. And, like, as you spend more time giving more hours—I mean, how much of our time do we give to speaking about our queerness or interacting with people that listen to the podcast? If you're not able to show, like, kind of who you really are, which is, like, of course we're silly, goofy people, but we're full, rounded people. … Us being more comfortable being vulnerable I think is a skill that was learned through podcasting so much.
As a comedian, a lot of times, we know exactly how to be funny. I think we learned how to be sincere and vulnerable through repetition of episodes. … Having a listenership that is open and vulnerable with us, … it feels like a two-way street.
McKenzie: We really care about our people, the people that listen to us. Like, we really care. And there's a lot of people that have followed us from, like, 2017, 2018, that we've grown with. … It feels like our listeners are our family. They're our friends. So, we care about what we're going to say.
It seems like connection is a driving force for you both. Would you agree?
Both: Yes.
Anything else either of you would like to add?
Rachel: I think the important thing is that the podcast, the live show, the tour — when you, like, boil it all down, what you're seeing is, like, actual friendship and, like, queer joy kind of mainlined into your bloodstream. And, like, whether you are watching a sketch that we wrote, a clip that we posted, the stand-up that we do, the podcast that you're hearing, what you get is, like, that feeling that you get when you're sitting with your closest queer friends and you're all laughing about the same thing that you all know about. You don't have to, like, talk about, like, how you got there. Those like real sweet moments, whether they're the funniest or the truest things. That's kind of what you're getting with Two Dykes. And, like, that's what we try to do with everything that we make.
Find Two Dykes and a Mic on Instagram and check out the podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. You can also follow Scanlon’s and Goodwin’s Instagrams to keep up to date with the comics themselves. And to learn more about the upcoming Topping Your Best Friend tour or buy tickets, check out the podcast’s website.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
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